September 14, 2005--eroding values

(This is from a yahoogroup, a discussion with J.--she's the one in >> <<'s.)

>>I think what's shocking to all of us here is the way each different country erodes christian values in its own way - but actually, it's not particularly surprising. We are all just used to our own country's worldliness, but find others' incredible.<<

J., you said SO much that made so much sense to me--thank you!

>>For example my impression, as someone who has never been to California (though my husband used to live there) is that it is the 'gay capital' of the states.<<

I'm from there, and it sure seems to be my impression, too...

>> Germany, with which I am much more familiar, having lived there myself, is the 'nudity and body awareness' capital of Europe.<<

And here I was thinking it was just all Europe, U.K. excluded! But this is the only part of Europe in which I've lived. But the whole "nudity and body awareness" (you sure phrased that well!) issue is certainly very entrenched in the culture. I once went to a house-warming party, hosted by a Christian in his early 20s, attended by mostly Christians in mostly that age group. There was one room with the lable "FKK" on the door, and I asked the friend (very innocent friend from Bible study--I spent the entire party telling people over and over again in my very limited German that he was NOT my boyfriend, which he wasn't! It wasn't until six months later--12 years ago TODAY--that he became that, and has been my husband for almost 11 years!!) with whom I was at the party what that meant. It stands for "freie Körper Kultur"--"free body culture", basically a euphamism for nudity. Nude beaches are labeled with FKK, for example. Anyway, it was just a joke at this particular party--nobody was dancing about naked! But the fact that this was considered a funny joke at all by Christians certainly says something about the culture. (And I was told that at non-Christian parties, having an FKK area that IS used as such isn't uncommon. I don't know if that's true, but that's what they said.)

>> In the end, the world is the world, and if the country we live in undermines our christian values to a degree which we consider unacceptable, there are two options - both laudable, and both having Biblical endorsement - we can stand our ground and be 'martyrs' (hopefully these days most of us on this list would only be metaphorical martyrs, some would have to be literal ones) or we can flee, and preserve the faith in great hardship, as refugees.<<

I'd have to add that a "refugee" status would also be more metaphorical than not, I think. When we leave, we'll be taking all of our possessions (which is far too many) with us, and if it's to Belgium that we go, probably be buying a house there, even though by paying back our loan early here, we'll have to pay a fairly steep penalty fee. My husband will even continue working in Germany! We'll have all the social benefits, health insurance, etc. The only thing we'd have in common with "real" refugees is having left our home because we didn't feel it was safe (spiritually) to continue living there.

>>It seems to me that in the recent German experience, what has gone tragically wrong is that some who would perhaps have chosen refugee status, have been catapulted into the martyrdom category by the actions of the state.<<

That sounds pretty accurate.

>> I have no idea what kind of warning they had, and whether there are any grounds for saying that they could and should have got out sooner -<<

About a month ago one family that we didn't know telephoned us late on a Friday night, because they'd heard from someone that had heard from someone etc. that we knew German homeschoolers in Belgium, and they wanted contact information. Actually, we knew about ONE German homeschooling family that had moved to Belgium in June, but we'd talked with them (on the phone only) before they'd moved, and didn't have their contact information in Belgium. We telephoned around ourselves and finally got them a phone number some time on that Saturday. I don't know what happened after that, but the reason they were trying to find someone in Belgium was because they'd been in court that day, and a decision about their children's custody had been postponed until the Monday. They were hoping to unregister their children in Germany Monday morning as soon as the registrar opened, and register them in Belgium, but needed an address for that. IF they could do this BEFORE the court made a decision, they'd be fine, but if they waited for the court's decision and it removed custody, they'd no longer be able to de-register their children. We ourselves always thought we'd at least get the chance to go to court, and if things went badly for us, we could leave--it had never occurred to us that things could happen so quickly or that we could be prevented from leaving the country! (It also never occurred to us that we'd be denied the opportunity to go to court. WE could have taken THEM to court, but that would just about guarantee losing, and be very expensive. We wanted THEM to take US to court...)

> but perhaps we have become unused to having to make such drastic decisions at short notice, and because we are so attached to our worldly roles and possessions, we are not keen to look the threat in the face.<<

If our physical lives had been in danger, we would have had to be total idiots to actually return to Germany after our four weeks in the U.S. in April. We would even have a place to live there--my parents' five children have all moved out of their five-bedroom house on four acres in the country, and even my parents are hardly ever home. But...our lives weren't in danger, and here is where we have an income, a home, all our things, our friends...so we came back. We also talked about getting a small apartment in Belgium for the children and me to spend the week days in, but I said I didn't want to be stuck in a little apartment with four small children, with a newborn who would then hardly know her Papa. But if our lives were in danger, we'd do it, right? For that matter, we'd already drawn the line at the school closest to us--friends in the Netherlands were prepared to receive the children and me at a moment's notice, if we thought there were any chance of Marie being taken to that school. So we chose a lesser evil--a different school--but we're still here. Yes, we plan to leave. I pray we really do, no matter how uncomfortable or expensive that might turn out to be.

>> How many of us would pack up and leave everythng if the conditions in our own country suddenly began to look a *bit* threatening, kind of thin end of the wedge ish? How many of us would feel up to accepting that here and now, in the twenty first century, our family needed to make a decision between martyrdom and refugee status? Huh?
And yet God's people have faced such decisions and challenges since the beginning of time. Why would we be any different?<<

You sure gave me food for thought, J. Everything I wrote already in this message was already more thinking out loud than anything else, responding spontaneously to what you wrote, and that's still what I'm doing. You're right--why would we be any different? And yes, things ARE only "a bit" threatening. Bad things are happening in some schools, but not all, and we believe probably not in ours. But do we know? We're waiting anxiously for the elections to find out if a better government comes in--but what if a worse one does? An awful lot of Jews did the same thing right before the Nazis were elected in 193...um...6? They waited for the elections and figured that if worst came to worst, they could leave--and worst did come to worst, and they couldn't. And those who could and did flee didn't know where to flee. The Franks ("Diary of Anne Frank") fled to the Netherlands, because they knew they'd be safe there, and they weren't. A lot of other Jews did, too. And to France and to Belgium and to Czechia and to lots of other places, sometimes one right after another. Has anyone here read "When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit", by Judith Kerr, and the sequels? It's fairly autobiographical--they went to Switzerland, then to France, then to England. They built up a new life in Switzerland, knowing they'd always be safe there--but Switzerland didn't want them. Then they did the same thing in France, but things were looking a little iffy there, too, so they finally went to England. They were the lucky ones--and they moved their entire lives three times.

Way too late to cut this short, but I'll try to stop soon... When I think of where to flee TO, I keep thinking of the time Jesus asked his disciples if they were going to leave him, too, and Peter said "Where would we go?" As long as we keep on keeping with God, we'll be where he wants us to be...but I also have to keep repeating that other guy's words, "Lord, I believe--help me in my unbelief!" Just about everything we've done, not done, or considering doing has made me wonder at one point or another "Is this God, or is it just my laziness or stubborness?" Are my children in school because God really made that clear to us, or because we're too wimpy to fight and too comfortable to leave? I'm having an evening of not knowing...pray for me, please, that I be reminded that even when I'm doubting God, I do know that He IS...